The Infrastructure Technology Podcast Talks Advancements in Transportation Infrastructure

Welcome back to a new episode of the Infrastructure Technology Podcast! In this episode hosts Gavin Jenkins, Brandon Lewis, and Harlee Hewitt talk advancements in transportation infrastructure.

Gavin interviews Dr. Darcy Bullock from Purdue University, who shares insights on how telematics and big data are transforming highway safety, from identifying crash patterns to enhance safety, to optimizing work zone management.

Brandon sits down with Terri Mestas, deputy CEO for Megaproject Delivery at Sound Transit, to discuss the ambitious $75 billion ST3 Plan, the largest transit expansion project in the U.S., which aims to enhance connectivity in the Seattle region through light rail and bus rapid transit systems. This episode highlights how technology and innovation intersect with infrastructure to address challenges, improve safety, and build a more sustainable future.

Gavin Jenkins (00:00:03):

Welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I'm Gavin Jenkins, senior managing editor of Roads and Bridges, and with me as always, we have my co-hosts and co-producers: Brandon Lewis, associate editor of Mass Transit Magazine and Harlee Hewitt, associate editor of not one, but two Endeavor Business Media Brands, construction Equipment and Roads and Bridges. Harlee. Brandon, how are you doing?

Brandon Lewis (00:00:32):

You guys, It's episode two, it's Tuesday, it's podcast day. We made it through episode one and guess what? We got two interviews today.

Gavin Jenkins (00:00:42):

Two interviews. All right. First up I'll be interviewing Dr. Darcy Bullock, a professional engineer who is also a professor at Purdue University. But Brandon, you'll be interviewing someone as well. Who do have got for us?

Brandon Lewis (00:00:59):

Yeah, so I got Terri Mestas, who's the first deputy CEO for mega project delivery for Sound Transit. We're going to be talking about all the infrastructure projects Sound Transit is currently developing. Before we do that though, I want to hear more about Darcy.

Gavin Jenkins (00:01:15):

Okay. Well, Darcy Bullock is the Lyles Family Professor of Civil Engineering at Purdue University, and Dr. Bullock serves as the director of the Joint Transportation Research Program, the JTRP, for those of you at home. Bullock is a registered professional engineer in Indiana, the Hoosier State, and he has spent 35 years working closely with academia, transportation agencies and private sector partners in the area of transportation systems and big data analytics. Big Data. That's where our conversation is headed. And how does technology scoop up data and inform people in the industry about highway safety and how to make it safer for everyone on the roads. Highway safety is a critical concern, not just for our industry, but for all industries. State transportation agencies look at traffic crashes and fatalities and right now they're rising or they have been rising ever since the pandemic. And states are increasingly leveraging data-driven approaches to bolster their transportation safety programs and enhance road safety using telematics data to identify driver behavior patterns that support states developing tailored intervention programs and campaigns.

Now those are my prepared remarks. For you, the listener at home, our typical episodes are going to be like this where we interview two people. We want our episodes to be able to capture your ears and we want them to be connected to two different audiences, Mass Transit and Roads and Bridges. Sometimes our episodes will be a conversation that reaches both brands, but sometimes the interviews will be on two different topics and we as your host will talk about where those intersect and where they don't. The mass transit industry and the roads and bridges industries are in conversation with one another, but there are times where they will not be. Before we get started, Harlee what do you think of these two interviews? Are you excited to hear them?

Harlee Hewitt (00:03:53):

I am excited to hear them. I think that they actually do, as we might talk about later, intersect in a lot of important ways. I mean with Sound Transit’s infrastructure projects that they have going on, and then what Dr. Bullock talks about with these sensors on the roads and in vehicles now, I think that there is a lot of intersection and a lot that both of them can even learn from each other. So, I think this is a really beneficial one for our audience.

Gavin Jenkins (00:04:24):

Okay, excellent. So, without further ado, here is my interview with Dr. Darcy Bullock from Purdue University.

Gavin Jenkins (00:04:36):

Dr. Bullock, welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. Thank you very much for sitting down with me.

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:04:43):

Thank you for having me, Gavin.

Gavin Jenkins (00:04:45):

Alright, let's talk about data-driven approaches. What are some of the data-driven approaches that states are leveraging to assist their highway safety programs?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:04:56):

Gavin, we're in a transformational time right now. 20 years ago, we used to spend millions of dollars instrumenting our roads with sensors, and we're now at the period where I would say our vehicles know more about our infrastructure than we do with traditional sensing. But what I mean by that is there are so many vehicles out there on the road with telematics that can provide as simple information as speed to much more sophisticated information like where are the potholes? Where are the hard braking events? Where is it raining? Where do we have traction control and icy spots?

Gavin Jenkins (00:05:41):

That's fascinating. So, I guess the next question then would be what are some of the common methods of collecting that information, the telematics data on driver behavior and where the potholes are and that sort of essential information that maintenance crews and DOTs need?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:06:07):

To put the data collection in perspective It's good to look at it as kind of two segments. I think the motoring public is familiar with Google and Apple Maps and you see speeds are collected on maps and that's displayed in real time. What's more valuable for an agency is to look at long-term trends and speeds. So, we can start looking at what are maybe the congestion profiles in an urbanized area or what traffic signals may have certain challenges at certain times of day. That's one bucket and I would call that traditional probe data. And then we start talking about enhanced probe data and that's where it really starts getting exciting. If you look at your cars, all the sensors that are on the cars, whether it be the ABS sensors or stability control sensors, that is a rich treasure trove of information for an agency. So, we can look at our entire network on a daily basis on where have potholes appeared, where has the pavement got rough, where have icy spots appeared during maybe a freezing fog event? All those sorts of things that we could do but maybe not cost effectively. We're now at the point where if we partner with the OEMs and we get in suitably anonymized data, we can have a much richer picture. So ultimately, we can make the best investments that maximize benefit to the motoring public and taxpayers.

Gavin Jenkins (00:07:43):

What role does AI play in all of that?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:07:48):

AI is frequently talked about in the connected vehicle space and it definitely has a role, but I think with AI we've got to walk before we run. So there's some basic physics of traffic engineering that we need to pre-process the data. For example, the state of Indiana, we ingest about 16 billion connected vehicle records every month. That is what I would call data rich information poor. What we really need to do then is go through and segment that down to critical routes, interstates identify, map it to signalize intersections, roundabout stop controls, and then from that we can then drive typical traffic engineering measures. Like what is the delay that a left turn might experience going into Walmart or out of Walmart—that now is data that can be fed into an AI model that kind of helps us systematically prioritize some of the investments.

Gavin Jenkins (00:08:55):

Well, if you drive like me, there is no delay because I gun it and I take that left turn. The second light turn screen, we call that the Pittsburgh left.

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:09:04):

Okay, so you'll get me off track a little bit here. I did spend some time in Pittsburgh. So, I am totally familiar with that. But, you're now getting down to additional enhanced probe data, what we call heartbreaking hard acceleration.

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:09:23):

Those are very good proxies for safety. So, in Indiana, in a study we did four or five years ago, we found a very strong correlation on the interstate between hard braking events and crashes in work zones. In fact, we see about 150 hard braking events on the interstate for every crash. So, what that allows us to do is systematically not identify the driver but a map to trends and we can identify specific areas in the state where, okay, something changed in the last week. Let's take a look at this to see if there are some mitigating circumstances that we can take to reduce those hard braking events that ultimately would reduce crashes.

Gavin Jenkins (00:10:11):

Okay. What are the factors then in deciding where the systems will be installed? There are smart corridors for example, and they've been installed on multiple stretches that are miles long on highways and interstates, and of course some of them are much shorter. Are there any other places where they're being installed?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:10:37):

So you asked a question about smart corridors, and again, that's in the area that's transformed over the last 15 or 20 years. 20 years ago, smart corridors, we'd spend huge proportion of our capital funds on placing sensors out there to understand traffic conditions and then make changes to traffic signals or something like that. The connected vehicle telematics space has been a game changer. Now we can buy that data, we don't have to put sensors out there, so now we can then focus on prioritizing where do we want to make our investments in smart corridors and then maybe make investments in 2, 3, 5 corridors maybe with some upgraded traffic signal controllers and some upgraded communications and focus on delivering those changes as opposed to spending all that money placing loop detectors and cameras out there.

Gavin Jenkins (00:11:37):

Okay. What about the current challenges and roadblocks for implementing these systems?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:11:48):

Our biggest challenge in this connected vehicle space right now is privacy, and it's a perception issue. So, it's one we have to face head on. The private sector companies use telematics to track their drivers, monitor productivity and all that. We have zero interest from an agency public service perspective on doing that. We care about what are the trends by time of day out there on the interstate, what are the trends at critical signals? So it's really, really important to have close partnerships with the OEMs. So we have a strong firewall. So, partnership doesn't mean they give us everything. That means we define a firewall so that we do not have access to that last mile of the trip. And by doing that, then we focus on what is the traffic behavior out there on the roads, but we're not interested in seeing where motorists stopped to have coffee or where their residence is or where their workplace is. So, it's really important to clip that connected vehicle data and focus on just the movements on the road, not where people came from or where they're going.

Gavin Jenkins (00:13:10):

Okay. I'm glad you mentioned that because that's what I was thinking when you were answering the previous question is just like, especially when you said that it can be purchased this information, I imagine then there are marketing firms and people who want to do ads on billboards that would really want that information as well. Since that is such a huge concern, privacy, is there resistance within the transportation field to a grown reliance on telematics systems?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:13:43):

So, I'm interpreting your question as ‘does privacy cause a concern for public agencies on using commercial private sector data’? I think we are all approaching this very, very cautiously, and that starts with you have to engineer privacy on step one. And so, a couple things is first all the reputable vendors out there have consent, so there's clear consent. And then the second is we make sure we have rigorous firewalls so that we don't have that beginning of trip, end of trip stored or used by agencies.

Gavin Jenkins (00:14:28):

What are some examples then on how this driver of behavior data has helped states to create educational programs and programs that improve safety?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:14:41):

Perhaps our biggest win in the connected vehicle space in the last couple years has been in construction work zone management. Understanding what hours of the day there's queuing present and so we can then schedule our work hours. And the reason that's so important is every construction zone is a little bit different and has a little bit different capacity. So, if we can use real time data to see how past zones have worked, and then as we go into new projects, agilely adjust. Instead of starting work at 8:00 PM if we start work at 9:00 PM, that will reduce the queuing by two or three miles. And we know when we have stopped traffic on the interstate, crash rates go up by a factor of 24. So, anything we can do in work zones to work with the contractor and the designers to more strategically schedule when activities and lane closures happen is a huge benefit to the public. And that's probably been, I think the biggest win in the connected vehicle space that kind of translates into safety.

Gavin Jenkins (00:15:53):

Can this information help us learn information about driver behavior around work zones? For example, can it tell us what percentage of people are actually going above the speed limit when they reach a work zone, for example?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:16:20):

Absolutely, and I think this is one of those things that you really have to go into carefully to look at trends. So, you never want to be in that situation and all of the connected vehicle data providers have appropriate restrictions on you cannot use that data for enforcement. However, you can use that data to inform agencies and maybe that means we schedule additional signs out there or we try to look at some speed mitigation because the shared interest is nobody wants a crash in the work zone and we know crashes go up with speeds. So are there the appropriate engineering measures that we can take for traffic calming so that we have traffic going at a reasonable speed as they're passing some of the construction workers out there. Everybody wants to go home at the end of the day.

Gavin Jenkins (00:17:18)

Absolutely. You said that our cars know more about the roadways than we do at this point, is there any way to have monitors in the cars that reduce the speed on their own or whenever they reach a certain point in the road, or is there any way to have monitors in the vehicles that has a voice that says ‘get off the phone’ or ‘put the phone down’, something like that.

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:17:52):

Okay, so you're bringing up a good point there, and that's probably not the core area of my research, so I'm a bit speculative on this, but you do absolutely see in the commercial motor vehicle space, the large fleet providers already do that. They have governors in their trucks that restrict speeds and sometimes it's as simple as it's a fixed governor. You see many times the back of a tractor trail is say, this truck cannot exceed 65 or 70 miles an hour. The next generation of that is then I am starting to see some of these large fleet providers now saying, okay, now we have a work zone with a speed limit of 45 miles an hour, we're going to enforce that in our truck. So, the private sector is already doing that, we're watching that and I think it's a technology that's promising, but has to be we have to judiciously move into that space again. There's definitely privacy and consent issues.

Gavin Jenkins (00:18:58):

Before I let you go, I do have one question slightly off topic and it's just about the future. You are a professor at a university and so you're dealing with the next generation. Our audience is witnessing and going through a labor shortage and there's a lot of retirements happening with the baby boomers. And so there's sort of this void of we need the next generation to step up. Can you put some of our audience at ease with this next generation? Are they focused, smart, bright, ready to step up and help rebuild infrastructure?

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:19:44):

Without a doubt. That's the American way, we rise to the challenge. 40 years ago when I was going to school, the faculty members had grown up with slide rules, right? Our current generation of students now think nothing of us giving them a big data set with a billion records in it and asking them to tell us where are the congestion pockets or where are the potholes. So, they are going to work different, but they are going to absolutely be solving that next generation of problems. And we're very proud of the engineers that we're graduating from Purdue University.

Gavin Jenkins (00:20:28):

Excellent. Thank you so much. I appreciate you talking with us today. Fascinating topic and we'll be covering it more on this podcast, that's for sure.

Dr. Darcy Bullock (00:20:39):

Great. Thank you for having me, Gavin.

Harlee Hewitt (00:20:46):

All right, welcome back from Gavin's interview with Dr. Bullock. And now I'd like to kick it on over to Brandon to tell us a bit more about Terri.

Gavin Jenkins (00:20:55):

Whoa, you’re just going to kick it off? You're not going to be like, wow, Gavin, that was a great interview? I learned so much. Great questions…

Harlee Hewitt (00:21:02):

Great, great interview. Gavin. I have it right here in my notes to stroke your ego and tell you how great of a job that you did.

Gavin Jenkins (00:21:10):

Well, I would at least think that you would say that they were great questions since you were the one who wrote them.

Harlee Hewitt (00:21:15):

Well, yes, fantastic questions.

Gavin Jenkins (00:21:18):

Oh, so now we get the compliment on the questions. Okay. Alright, well I see you just want to skip right past that and just go right to Brandon. That's fine. That's fine.

Harlee Hewitt (00:21:33):

Go ahead Brandon.

Brandon Lewis (00:21:35):

Well, Harlee, I am flattered that you'd be willing to just jump right to me, but unfortunately it doesn't look like I'll have to put on my officiating outfit and break this up. But let's get into Terri Mestas because as I said at the beginning of this show today, she is the first deputy CEO for megaproject that will reinforce Sound Transit. But Mestas is a seasoned professional with more than 30 years of experience leading large complex infrastructure programs for space exploration, military installations, national and international physical security and innovative project delivery for the aviation industry. So, what we talked about in this interview coming up is a lot of the rail and on the bus rapid transit side of these mega projects Sound Transit has started right before the pandemic, during the pandemic, and now here after the pandemic of bringing transit and accessibility to the west coast—the Seattle, Washington region. And we talk about the ST3 plan, which is the largest transit expansion program in the country. And that ballot was passed in 2016 and it’s investing about 54 billion in capital projects in, as I said, that sort of deep West coast in the region. We talk a lot about the Sound Transit lid one extension as well as the Stride Bus Rapid Transit program. So with that in mind, let's go to my interview with Terri Mestas.

Brandon Lewis (00:23:23):

Welcome back to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I am your co-host Brandon Lewis, and I am here today with Terri Mestas, who is the first deputy CEO for megaproject delivery for Sound Transit. Terri, how are you doing today?

Teri Mestas (00:23:44):

I am doing great. I'm very excited to be here today. Thank you.

Brandon Lewis (00:23:48):

Excellent. So we are going to spend a lot of time today talking about infrastructure when it comes to Sound Transit because you guys and the agency are working on so many projects when it comes to the rail industry and the bus industry, and a lot of these projects are coming from the ST3 plan, and that plan is the largest transit expansion program in the country. It's investing about 54 billion in capital projects. So, Terri, to start us off today, tell me a little bit about the plan and some of the projects that this plan is funding.

Terri Mestas (00:24:30):

Sure, thank you. Yeah, so ST3, super exciting. We are going to be leading an incredible expansion. So, we're going from 32 miles, 33 stations, two line light rail system to 116-mile 83 stations and five lines over the next two decades. As you said, ST3 is about 54 billion, but when you look at the entire program, it's going to be more than $75 billion, which is an incredible investment for the region. Some of the projects include the West Seattle Link extension, the Ballard Extension, Tacoma Dome, Everett, but it's also multimodal with our bus rapid transit investment as well as working across different areas to make sure that people, whether they're pedestrians or they're coming in different modes, can access light rail and really go throughout the region and hopefully support its economic growth.

Brandon Lewis (00:25:31):

So, we're going to be talking about a lot of the projects that you just mentioned there, not only right rail, but also bus rapid transit. But before we get into that, can you tell me a little bit whether this project is focusing all across the state of Washington, or the city of Seattle? How far are these projects going throughout the state?

Terri Mestas (00:26:02):

It's regional and we are going across several cities, so all the way over to Everett being one of the farthest points down to Tacoma. So really a big stretch. I think I mentioned 116 miles. That's a lot of areas, so it's really a big footprint. So just adding a little bit to that Brandon, that means we're working with multiple jurisdictions, which is great. We're able to add economic impact into all of those cities and regions, but it also means close collaboration with a lot of different agencies and people and communities to make sure that we're hitting the market in how we deliver the work.

Brandon Lewis (00:26:43):

What are the challenges in terms of working with those jurisdictions? Is there different regulations for each jurisdiction that you have to abide by?

Terri Mestas (00:26:57):

Yeah, great question. I think that as we look at an area, we want to be sensitive to the community, sensitive to where we are placing the line, also sensitive even to construction staging what we're putting out of service potentially during construction and how we're impacting that region's traffic and just being able to get around. There are some different requirements that come up depending on the city and there's also different economic considerations and also even environmental mitigations. How are we doing the work and what is it impacting? And so there's a lot of sensitivity, a lot of planning that goes into that. Working very closely with the community. We do a lot of outreach, so we do a lot of engagement to get direct feedback from our communities very early on in these projects so that we don't go too far down the road without their input.

Brandon Lewis (00:27:54):

Absolutely. Now let's dive into some of these infrastructure projects. One of them is the Linwood project. Now the first portion of Sound Transit’s link two line began service on April 27th. Talk about that project first and what that has already done for Sound Transit.

Terri Mestas (00:28:16):

Yeah, so on Linwood, I'll just remind everybody that AuguST30th we are opening up Linwood. That's about five years from the day of groundbreaking. So huge milestone for us. It's an 8.5-mile extension, both elevated and half at grade, half elevated. So, four new stations, three new parking garages. I was just out there actually yesterday we did a ribbon cutting for the Scriber Creek Trail, which was a partnership with that city to create a new path, talking about the different modes of modality where pedestrians or people in different modes of their own transportation can come down across that area and get directly to Linwood or one of those stations. So huge effort that's taken a lot of work and it was a big, big accomplishment getting this project done through the pandemic and also through a four month long concrete strike. And I don’t know if anybody's been out there, but the work is just beautiful and the design of the stations is really spectacular.

Brandon Lewis (00:29:26):

Can you talk about what specifically that extension will bring for transit users?

Terri Mestas (00:29:33):

Well, I think that if you look at the economic value of it it's allowing people now to get across the region to get to jobs. It's allowing students to get to their different places of education. It also has allowed us to create a tremendous number of jobs in the region. One of the things that we do really, really well at Sound Transit is that we work with our partners that are doing pre-apprenticeship programs to create jobs going into the crafts and labor and construction. So there have been many, many jobs, I'll have to look at my metrics here. Also, the number of small businesses and diverse businesses that have been able to get work through the Linwood extension has been really significant. That also sets them up to come and work on these future projects in ST3 now that they have that experience. I just met with a firm the other day who was lucky enough to do some of the exterior work on these projects and they were asking me, ‘how can I work on ST three’? And the way that we're setting up our procurements on ST3 will allow just that small businesses really targeted approach to come and continue all the great work. And so this is really an economic engine is what I'm trying to say. All these extensions do very much include Linwood.

Brandon Lewis (00:30:52):

Now also with the Link two wine that began service on April 27th, have you guys gotten any feedback from riders or just people in the industry on the success of how that's going?

Terri Mestas (00:31:09):

I think all the feedback has been very positive. I think it's getting people excited for what's to come. I did ride it the other day and there was a lot of ridership people on there, stations are clean and I just see people excited. I'm seeing families on the weekends when I was there riding it and utilizing it well. So I think it's been extremely positive.

Brandon Lewis (00:31:35):

And as we've talked about, the overarching theme with this project is expansion of services in more ways for people to get from place to place. Now, we'll dive into the Tacoma Link extension that opened up in September 2023 and that extension brought in seven new stations and it doubled the line. So that's a lot of potential new ridership coming in there. How has that affected service as well as ridership?

Terri Mestas (00:32:23):

Well, on ridership, I'll just say what we're seeing is that we are at pre-pandemic levels, which is really exciting. We're seeing about 80,000 riders a day on average. As a matter of fact, we just set a ridership record last year where we saw about 130,000 riders using light rail during that time. Super exciting. I think we're going to see that continuing to grow. And so I think that as people start riding all these new extensions, they're seeing how well it's operating, the ease, I think we're going to continue to see that to increase. And also I'll just say on over Pride weekend, we were at over a hundred thousand riders, so I just think we're just continually seeing increases in ridership.

Brandon Lewis (00:33:29):

In terms of all of these extensions when it comes to bringing in new stations. Tell me a little bit about the station experience and how much of that matters and plays into riding transit overall.

Terri Mestas (00:33:45):

Yeah, we actually invest a lot of time in the ridership experience, the passenger experience, whether it be on the finishes, whether it's on the pathways, how we set up the platform, kind of a central platform as opposed to two platforms, making sure that it's easy to navigate the use of materiality as far as just even slip resistance, making sure that we're making it safe for all people. And even on the art, we want this to be a landmark as far as a real experience, not just from a transit and modality experience, but also seeing some local art and having some really nice things to look at and appreciate the area. So it's a very holistic view and we also want to be very conscious on the style of architecture and those elements, creating elegant solutions that are really going to be timeless for that community and really enjoyable. As you look around that community and you see a station in the distance there, we want it to be something that's really appreciated and really complimentary to that community.

Brandon Lewis (00:34:56):

How do you go about, and maybe you might've just answered this question, but how do you go about making every station aesthetically from the outside?

Terri Mestas (00:35:17):

No, great question. Well, number one, we want to make sure that we're getting feedback from the community, right? I mean, they know their communites best and they know how to best represent themselves in our station. So really close collaboration with them. We also have a great team of experts here. We have an architectural department. We bring on the right consultants and partners in the industry also to figure out how to best interpret that representation for that community. But we also want to make sure that we're being sustainable in the choices. Many of our stations are lead certified stations. We want to make sure that we're choosing local materials, really trying to emphasize that sustainability and resiliency aspect of the stations. And we are also bringing in local artists on the art to make sure that they're even further representing that community. So I think getting as much feedback as we can from that community, having that sustainable lens in everything that we do, while being conscious of cost and all those other factors that we have to operate in to be successful.

Brandon Lewis (00:36:26):

When it comes to consultants, do you use one or two different consultants? Do you sort of spread them out? How does that process work?

Terri Mestas (00:36:38):

Yeah, well, procurement is a really important part on how we do the work for these large extensions. For example, we do have specific procurements that go out to bring on consultants. The procurement process is really extensive, so we're putting a lot of criteria in those procurements to be able to select the best partners for that project. And whether it's minimum qualifications, we go through the interview process with these consultants and we have a panel of experts here at Sound Transit to make sure that we're selecting the right consultants. So we're very, very fortunate in the region. We have a great pool of industry partners with a tremendous amount of expertise, and a lot of experience at Sound Transit as well as in those particular communities that they're going to be working in. So really a great partnership to come up with best solutions for each of these wonderful projects.

Brandon Lewis (00:37:37):

So we've talked a lot about rail. Let's transition now to bus, and of course I'm talking about the Stride bus, rapid Transit. Now Terri, this project did break ground in September of 2023, and it will provide fast, reliable, high capacity travel service with connections to light rail. And so how far along right now as we are sitting here recording this podcast is the project.

Terri Mestas (00:38:09):

Well, we've done great work. I'll say with the new work that's on the horizon, we're just going out with some new procurements. So we're looking at three lines, Bellevue to Burien, Linwood to Bellevue, Shoreline to Bothell, and it covers a great amount of distance here, going all the way from about the Linwood City Center all the way down to the Buran Transit Center. So on a map, that's a pretty big area that we're going to be serving. And I think just Linwood to Bellevue, it's 20 miles with seven stations. Shoreline to Bothell is nine miles with 13 stations. So really big footprint, really big investment for us. The amenities are going to be included arebenches, station artwork, shelters, windscreens, trying to use technology by having real time arrival displays at those locations. Also taking security into account with CCTV cameras and lighting and branding. So, a really holistic experience if you've looked at some of the renderings that we created. Again, just really taking up, I think a really elegant architectural lens to how we're doing those shelters and stations to create a really wonderful experience. On the sustainability front, looking at an all-electric stride fleet is a really exciting. We’re looking at double decker buses that are articulated at 60 feet. There's going to be charging stations and just I think a really well thought out future state for our bus system.

Brandon Lewis (00:39:55):

So, you had already mentioned it going into my next question, talking about the zero emissions. Obviously every transit agency nationwide is currently focusing on trying to get as many and as close to zero emission buses as they can. Now, every agency and supplier has had issues in terms of them, and obviously there's been some, but suppliers leaving the market. So talk about any challenges that you guys over at Sound Transit experience when it comes to transitioning your fleet to zero emission?

Terri Mestas (00:40:36):

Yeah, I'm not sure on as far as how we're doing with the suppliers and that coordination, if there's a kind of a supply chain issue there. I do know that we're moving in that direction. We have gratefully set aside dollars to make this investment. And so, I'm going to be looking into seeing if there are any supply chain, supply chain issues. But looking at our procurements here, it looks like our fleet for all electric vehicles was actually awarded in the fourth quarter of 2023. And I think that's going well. I think we're moving forward.

Brandon Lewis (00:41:28):

So is this going to be the big first bus rapid transit system that Sound Transit has?

Terri Mestas (00:41:39):

I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. I was, yeah, you know what? I'm not sure, Brandon, let me check on that for you. Still getting up to speed on the buses and where we are with those procurements and just the status and overall state of that part of our program.

Brandon Lewis (00:41:58):

Yeah, absolutely. So let's just dive into again though, what will this specific StrideBRT bring to the actual public transit system of Sound Transit?

Terri Mestas (00:42:13):

Well, I think it's going to provide fast, frequent, and reliable service. It's going to have 10 minute headways and off peak about 10 to 15 minute headways. The service span is more than 17 hours per day. It's going to provide state-of-the-art passenger information, also offboard fair pavement. We're going to accept for cash. There's going to be bicycle accommodations, front racks on the buses and storage at select stations. So I think that we're trying to be as efficient and to provide, again, that holistic experience for over 17 hours per day, which is really exciting. And it really compliments the longer, or this broader light rail system too. It goes really hand in hand with that expansion.

Brandon Lewis (00:43:11):

So when do you expect the Stride BRT to launch?

Terri Mestas (00:43:17):

Well, considering that we've already made some key procurements, I think we're in the process. We're about to go into another procurement here. We're looking for that procurements to start in Q2 of 2025, and that's for our contracted service provider for operators and mechanics, the startup support for our fleet testing and creating our standard operating procedures. So we're preparing for that. And so I think we're well underway just thinking about the work that we've done already. The 44th station is I think is under construction now, and that has direct access ramps to and from the express toll lanes working closely with on that. And also looking at what we've been doing in other areas on construction with stations. Again, working, I'm just looking at a map here on some of these stations that we've had across the region. The Brickyard, there's a station at Bothell, another transit hub in that general area. There's a lot in design. We are doing a lot of this work as design build procurement, so finishing up those designs so we can go into construction with a lot of other items on here in construction, I think people are going to start seeing some real changes here very soon.

Brandon Lewis (00:45:01):

As we talked about today with a lot of these projects, a lot of these are currently in construction or about to launch, but they all are really taking go against the technology and the experience and everything to sort of give rider the modern day transit experience. As we know, technology is always evolving.

Terri Mestas (00:45:25):

Absolutely. I mean, think you're seeing that with the displays. I think we're showing that with the security work that we're putting into place, being really thoughtful about our battery electric buses charging support infrastructure. And again, this is about giving the riders the best experience and providing them with accurate real time information so that they can navigate our bus systems. And making sure that we're providing for a sustainable system that's forward, forward-looking. Technology's always changing, so we're trying to be forward-looking at what we're installing as well

Brandon Lewis (00:46:09):

And making it last, right? Because in today's modern day society with all the technological upgrades we have, things last longer or they have the potential to be fixed where they don't have to be replaced as often.

Terri Mestas (00:46:29):

Absolutely. I love that you brought up that point because we do look at that total cost of ownership. What are we installing so that we're not going to have to change it out in a short period of time? What is the longevity of the infrastructure that we're putting in place, and is it easily maintainable that's better for the passenger? We're putting in durable, longstanding type systems. It means less downtime for things that need to be maintained later. It also means that we're more efficient how we maintain things and just more efficient as an agency on the assets that we're overseeing. So yeah, great point. That's definitely a strong lens that we look at for all of the work that we're doing.

Brandon Lewis (00:47:08):

Are there any major infrastructure projects when it comes to the ST three plan that we did not address?

Terri Mestas (00:47:16):

I think we touched on all the major items. Yeah, I think maybe one thing I'll just say holistically is that there is a lot of investment going on in the region, and we are looking at how we can be innovative with technology, with how we do the work, and really be mindful about being the owner of choice. Our industry partners do have choices on where they're going to go and pursue all the many opportunities in the region, and we want them to come to Sound Transit with their best foot forward and offer the best solution. So, with that in mind, and the fact that we're doubling our program, we're looking at how Sound Transit staff and the tools that we have in place need to evolve to better support Sound Transit 3. So we've been doing a lot of training with our team, looking at, again, the best processes out there, whether it means new delivery methods. We're looking at introducing Progressive Design build as another option in collaborative delivery on how we can build this work and be better partners with industry. Talking about technology, even bringing on our own tools on how we can better manage, new systems, new project management information systems kind of has a central repository on managing this huge portfolio. And also taking a moment to look at all the lessons learned on ST2 and making sure that we're leveraging all those great things that worked out really well for us and for those items that need a little fine tuning, looking at those and making sure that we're taking those into account and weaving that into how we deliver ST3. So I think it's a really great nexus point for us to, as we're wrapping up ST2, is looking at how we can delivers ST3 even better and be the owner of choice and bring on those really great partners that we are lucky to have in the region.

Brandon Lewis (00:49:13):

What do you think are some of those lessons from ST2 that you can carry to ST3?

Terri Mestas (00:49:20):

Yeah, great question. I think that looking at how we deliver is a good one. I think that the industry is definitely leaning towards more collaborative delivery. We've been doing a lot of GCCM or CMR type of delivery, but also design build industry is less keen on design build. We've done kind of design, build fixed price and put a contract early on, set that contract early on without a lot of development on the scope of the project, and that's led to some challenges. So, looking at more collaboration, more transparency and trust with our industry partners and really figuring out how we can make quicker decisions as we embark on these really complex projects. There's going to be challenges and we need to work hand in hand with our industry partners to come up with solutions. I think that's a really big one that's going to attract more interest in our program. I think that being more consistent in how we deliver the program is another. One of the things that we've been looking at is are there elements in how we build that are repeatable, looking at this as more of a toolkit so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel every time we have a project. Are there parts of this that we can repeat and that are consistent? And that also makes it easier for industry to approach our projects and know that, hey, this part, I've already done it before, it's the same part. We're going to repeat it again and kind of have that approach to modularity. I think that also helps reduce impact potentially on traffic and construction staging. What can we build offsite and bring it to the site of the project and install and have it ready to go?

(00:51:11):

So I think those are two big areas that we're looking at. Just having more of a toolkit, kind of a kit of parts on the approach, and then always enhancing our partnership with the community and also with all these cities that we're working with to create a framework on how we can work through decisions earlier. I think a higher level of investment in the planning piece is something that pays off well when we're in construction. So having those conversations with the different authorities of jurisdiction on our projects and our communities to have clarity on how we're going to deliver and what that's going to look like so that there are no surprises later on during construction, I think that's going to help us speed up and also set the right expectations. So those are a few of the lessons learned that we're looking at now.

Brandon Lewis (00:52:04):

And these collaborations are not only with you guys, with the city, with contracts, with firms, it's also with the federal government and federal funding because you can only do so much with how much money you get, correct?

Terri Mestas (00:52:22):

True. So we're working very closely with the FDA, for example. Their partnership is absolutely key. I think making sure that we're providing transparent, timely information and partnering with them. Like I said before, there's a lot of work in the region. They're not just supporting our work, but supporting a lot of other partners. And so we want to make sure that we are including them in the planning process as far as just the schedule of how we're going to be embarking in those milestones where we really need their support. We're actually working on a big schedule for them now, really looking out across ST three to let them know when we're going to come to them and when we really need their support so they can plan their work with their staff, not just looking again at Sound Transit, but all their other partners that they're working with across the region. So yeah, absolutely being better partners, being really timely, and I think forecasting when we need support and when we're going to be putting things out there is going to be key.

Brandon Lewis (00:53:28):

And Terri, I know that you have many years of experience in the transit industry, but you have only been in this role and Sound Transit at the time of this recording for about three months. So, what lessons have you learned or has anything sort of surprised you in your short time in this role?

Terri Mestas (00:53:52):

I've worked in a lot of different markets. Right before coming to Sound Transit, I was in the aviation space. I'll say that the amount of expertise and I think passion at Sound Transit is really remarkable. I also think that maybe what's a little different that struck me when I got here is the staff's really openness and desire to look at how to look at best practices in the industry and apply them here. There's a lot of openness to how can we do things better. A lot of the challenges of these large mega programs are similar. There's always that desire to build things faster, cheaper, better, while you're maintaining quality. That's across the board. So that's certainly things that we're looking at here and that I'm bringing through my many years of experience. I think that with these large organizations, there's always that effort to streamline. I think that I do see a great opportunity here to streamline how we do our work.

(00:55:05):

I think naturally a lot of large organizations get caught up in the process of doing work and maybe lose sight sometimes on the actual work. So kind of bringing ourselves back to how can we be as streamlined as possible while we're providing the best amount of communication at the same time and be efficient and really focus on the work and get the work done, and provide all these great services for our community. So I think streamlining is a real big opportunity here that I'm looking at working with the team. And also really leaning into technology and innovation. We were just talking the other day, we don't want to be necessarily doing the first in the world of everything, but we want to be right there as the leaders in this market, bringing forward best practices and thinking outside of the box, taking lessons learned from what's happening in other markets on how they're delivering.

(00:56:06):

A really good example of that is progressive design build. So I've used progressive design build for many years in different markets, hasn't been as widely used in this region and not as widely used in transit, I think in general. So bringing that to this market and getting Sound Transit, I think prepared to do it really well. It does require a mindset. It does require a larger amount of trust and transparency with industry partners, which is traditionally very opposite to something like design bid build. So I think changing behaviors and changing mindsets is another big opportunity. But I always say that's the exciting part, right? Is thinking on how we're going to be more creative and innovative and take those things that apply to transit and make them work here and make it more fun. This is where all the fun lies and kind of being more creative in how we can deliver all this great complex work.

Brandon Lewis (00:57:05):

Absolutely. Terri Mestas, the first deputy CEO for mega project delivery for Sound Transit. Terri, thank you so much for joining us today on the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

Terri Mestas (00:57:19):

Brandon, it's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Harlee Hewitt (00:57:26):

Okay, so you've heard both interviews that we had for you today. You've learned about traffic control sensors with Dr. Bullock from Purdue. We've talked to Terri Mestas and the latest on Sound Transit's upcoming projects that are integrating smart technologies. And so there's a lot to glean here, I think, for DOT officials, maybe for some transit officials and even construction workers, as Dr. Bullock talked about construction sensors and how those are now being integrated and helping with these projects all the way to Terri's discussion of application in the Sound Transit’s case. So Gavin, Brandon, give me your thoughts. What stood out to you?

Gavin Jenkins (00:58:13):

Well, first of all, I'd just like to congratulate Brandon Lewis on such an excellent interview and your energy in general. Brandon is always perfect.

Harlee Hewitt (00:58:23):

Yeah, absolutely.

Gavin Jenkins (00:58:24):

You're a big energy guy, and I thought that that was a great interview. So, what I've taken away from this episode and Brandon's interview, it's just the funding aspect. The ST three plan was on, it was a ballot measure. And so you have the residents of that part of Washington, the Seattle region, that are saying, we want this upgrade, we want infrastructure investment. And for telematics for that to happen, there has to be investment. It has to be the citizens of an area coming together and saying, we want to invest in infrastructure, and it has to be done at all different levels of infrastructure. And that's one of the great things of what's happened over the last several years is America is finally investing and in infrastructure, and hopefully it continues.

Brandon Lewis (00:59:25):

And I think for me, when you put both of these interviews together, it's a little bit about safety, right? Because whether telematics or whether it's infrastructure, whether it's any industry, we all know that safety is obviously the number one priority. And I think when we talk about a lot of these projects, no matter what it is, right? I mean, we're talking about projects that are going to be, in my case, in my interview with Terri, we're talking about projects that aren't going to be done until 2028, 2029, that's four or five years from now. How is that technology changing in that space? And if it does change, how do we make sure that that technology and that infrastructure and that safety is going to remain in place for years to come? Because as Gavin said, of the amount of funding that is being used for these projects, they can't fall apart in a couple years. They have to last for decades and decades and decades.

Gavin Jenkins (01:00:32):

I take issue with how you just described time as if four years is a long time. I think that goes right back to the fact that you're in your mid-twenties and you said 2028 as if it's a long time from now, but once you hit your forties children, you'll realize that time moves really fast. But you're right, Brandon, everything you said was right.

Gavin Jenkins (01:01:05):

Yeah, the bottom line. You were right.

Harlee Hewitt (01:01:07):

Well, that's been it from us. This has been senior managing editor of Roads and Bridges, Gavin Jenkins, associate editor of Mass Transit, Brandon Lewis, myself, Harlee Hewitt, associate editor of Roads and Bridges and Construction Equipment. And we'd like to thank the people who brought this to you, Endeavor Business Media, and also our co-producer, Ryan Curtiss, who kindly puts all these together for us. So, thank you and we'll catch you in the next one.